User talk:Aleal
User:Pino Hey Andrew, I just wanted to alert you to a small situation concerning User:Pino's contributions. If you've looked at his history and certainly the Move Log in Recent Changes, I'm sure you've seen what I mean already (mainly that I can't understand what the heck he's doing -- and it seems that he doesn't either). I left him a message on his talk page for now. You don't need to do anything about it, I just wanted to make sure you knew what was going on. -- Scott Scarecroe 23:45, 12 February 2006 (UTC) :The main thing I noticed was he kept creating pages for international Sesame actors, without adding anything, and kept making them redirects to album pages, or blanking them, and so forth, which is not so much counterproductive as it is mind-boggling. (I think I'd even deleted one or two way back, and they were recreated). That, and because of the languge barrier, some potentially useful info, such as some of the hand puppet pages or comments on the character evolution pages, is in severe need of copy editing. I get the feeling part of it may be that somehow, he's not quite sure how to create new pages and so he edits a pre-existing page and then changes the name and deletes the redirect, or something of the nature. It *is* confusing, but he is responding, so we'll see how it goes. --Andrew, Aleal 00:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah, the starting a page and moving it to a new one thing just scratches the surface. I've found cases where there are 4 and 5 levels of redirects. Which don't work by the way. I've tried fixing some of them at , but it's not fun keeping up with. -- Scott Scarecroe 00:47, 13 February 2006 (UTC) :::Err, yeah, I just saw that! I went ahead and delted the Netherlands, which redirects to Germany, which redirect to Mexico, etc. I'm tempted to just delete all the nation pages. Designer template I replied to your post on my talk page, but if you're looking for input from Danny and Vard, and general conversation, I suggest opening the talk page up for the template and directing them to Talk:Template:Designer. -- Scott Scarecroe 05:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, I just saw, and in fact have already tweaked the template to use "Design Team". I forgot that templates have talk pages, though! Thanks, Scott. The Wiki is a continual learning experience! --Andrew, Aleal 05:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC) ::Speaking of which... When you post something on Current events, feel free to plug it on the Main page. I added a note about the designer box. I like it so much! -- Danny Toughpigs 15:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC) :: Andrew - The Designer/Builder template is sheer genius! As a designer, I am thrilled & flattered to get a box assigned for the artists that have helped build the Muppet Empire. I think it looks good on the page and doesn't clutter up the text. We may not be able to assign names to both designer & builder, but it's goood that at least one is stated. There may be some characters that go so far back that it will be difficult to attach a name. Is there opportunity to write "Attributed to..." if in case, for instance we "think" Don Sahlin designed something....or do we just leave blanks. Will the box be on every character page - & possibly empty?...or is it inserted as needed....Vard John-John "John-John: A Case Study" makes me very happy. -- Danny Toughpigs 12:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC) :Thanks, and thanks for prettying up the page with the sketch listing. Found another John-John sketch floating in limbo (involving Q, can't find or recall any details). -- Andrew, Aleal 18:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC) A promotion Hi Andrew: I just posted a message on Scott's talk page about making you an admin. What would you think about that? -- Danny Toughpigs 12:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC) :Ahem! I'm flattered, if just slightly wary. Been spending more time than I should on this Wiki as is, and probably need to cut back at some point rather than commit to more. But as long as it's not a problem if I wind up being around less (which I guess is the reason for multiple admins to begin with, come to that), certainly, I'd be honored! --Andrew, Aleal 18:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC) ::Excellent! Yeah, there's no time requirement or anything. You're doing so much great work, and I want people to recognize that you've earned trust and authority here. It might inspire other people, too. I just added you to the admin list, and I'll post an announcement on Current events, too. ::Now, I don't know exactly what this status change does, technically. You get the power to delete pages, and block users, and there may be other things that I'm forgetting. I think there's something about lighting candles around a pentagram on the night of the full moon or something. I'm sure it'll come to me. ::Meanwhile, could you send me an e-mail? I don't think I have your e-mail address, and I might need it at some point. I'm at toughpigs@gmail.com. ::Thanks again for everything you've done so far! With this ring I thee wed. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:27, 6 February 2006 (UTC) :::The candles could be tricky (the smoke detector is a bit over-sensitive), but I'll see what I can do. And missive sent to ye! --Andrew, Aleal 18:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC) ::::Well, the first e-mail bounced, claiming no such address, so trying again. If it doesn't get through, my address is blandings5@gmail.com. --Andrew, Aleal 19:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC) From the Balcony characters Well, I can see why someone might want to delete those parts of those pages but we should find out who are voicing the characters. I know that they are all in the vein of "one-off" characters who may never be seen again but we should find out as much about them as possible before the official sources forget. After all, they are now a part of Muppet lore whether they are bit players or major players. -Sbartok 19:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)- :We should find out, yes, but look at the other Balcony characters. It seems to me that the very absence of such info highlights the need for it. The same applies to many of The Muppet Show bit players. It just seems sloppy to keep repeating it. Why not add a note to the From the Balcony page about it, so it's always there? By the way, it's clearly Drew Massey as Mr. Movie and Victor Yerrid as Billy (From the Balcony). Almost all the one shots are played by them, it's just distinguishing who played which that's tricky. --''Aleal 19:38, 4 February 2006 (UTC)'' ::I guess the optimal solution would simply be to contact official sources (Muppet Holding Company?) & get the character credits straight from them. Better still, convince the Muppet Holding Company that it's in their best interests to contribute such information directly to the wiki to avoid misinformation from being printed. After all, the only bad publicity is no publicity at all. Certainly, by now, SOMEONE from the 3 official Muppet organizations (Sesame Workshop, MHC & JHC) must be watching the development of this wiki. I know that this dovetails into an entirely different discussion but has any of the "higher-ups" here made an attempt to contact the "higher-ups" there to retrieve information or establish a method of collecting valued but currently unknown information? Regardless... -''Sbartok 19:52, 4 February 2006 (UTC)'' :::Hey, I just uploaded images for Mr. Movie and Billy (you can save shots from From the Balcony using "Print Screen", and then pasting into Paint or another image edit program). And while the reusable puppets thing is still in question (I recognized Ted Thomas faintly, though, and I suspect that most of the rest of them are variations, ala Anything Muppets, with altered features of characters from the Muppet Meeting Films, who normally aren't used much outside of those), here's something which may help in identifying voices: http://www.voicebank.net/default.jsp?ptype=reels :::Many Muppet performers have demos up on that site (Martin P. Robinson's has some nice Snuffy and Telly samples, and even has Shelly the Turtle, who I miss). Simply type in a puppeteer's last name, then download the demo. None of the Balcony characters specifically are on there yet, but listening to the demos helps acquaint you with the range. Almost all the deep voiced roles are Massey, and the higher kid or excitable roles, and the Woody Allen impression for Alvy Mellish, are Victor Yerrid (who has even more demons and samples at his own website, and could be a better person to ask about this stuff than trying to contact someone at JHC). Hope this helps! --''Aleal 19:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)'' ::::Thanks for the compliments, Aleal. I'm just trying to contribute where ever I can. A lot of people here seem to have a lot of knowledge on all the historical aspects of the Muppets so I'm pretty much leaving those areas up to them unless I can remember something specific or stumble onto something specific. My current theory is to cover all of the present material as quickly & thoroughly as possible before it gets lost. My prime example is Muppetworld.com, which has mostly vanished into obscurity due to the fact that it was online content & Flash-based. Except for memories, we don't have much left so we need to catalog the present as thoroughly as possible because, just like the MuppeToons, it could be here today & then gone forever. Who knows for how long we're going to have From the Balcony around, you know? All it takes is for Bob Iger to wake up in a crabby mood one day & it can be gone overnight. At any rate, thanks again for the compliment. -Sbartok 18:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)- Kermit Love Thanks for nominating the Kermit Love article -- I just put it up on the Main Page. I'd heard Love's name in a bunch of different places, but I didn't realize that he'd done so many things. It's cool that you put it all together; now people can really appreciate what he did. I found a nice picture, too -- you should check out the link I posted for some more pics. And more information, too, if you can speak German, which I can't. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC) :Now I feel all special and stuff. Thanks for cleaning up some of my goofs and adding that great picture. I was rather amazed myself by how much information I'd found out about Kermit Love simply by searching through old news databases (especially the ballet info). At a later point, I'd like to add some quotes from him regarding Big Bird's design (from The Works and various interviews) and more personal info (I added the brief note from Caroll Spinney's book, but don't have it handy, as it went into a little more detail about their relationship and his day to day role on "the street.") And the German site has some great pictures. Actually, I have an online friend I've supplied with info on English voices for a German site. Perhaps I should send her the pages and ask for a rough translation or summary some time. --''Aleal 21:36, 1 February 2006 (UTC)'' ::Yeah, more quotes is great. It's fun putting that kind of article together, isn't it? Like, all that information is out there in different places, but you're gathering it all and putting it into a readable form for Muppet fans. I had the same experience with my Afternoon with Inga and Western Publishing articles. I want to do that more -- at some point, maybe I'll be doing less procedural stuff on the wiki, and I can do more actual article writing! -- Danny Toughpigs 22:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC) Neighborhood watch program Hey babe: Thanks for your amazing work fixing the vandalism today, and alerting me. Unfortunately, I was out all day and couldn't get to the wiki; otherwise, I would have blocked him earlier, and saved you the work. Over the last few days, I've started losing my will to be patient with the vandals. That kid is clearly OCD/ADD, and he's not going to stop posting his madness just because we ask him to. I put an indefinite block on that address, and I'll do the same whenever he shows up. I'm going to talk to Scott about being tougher with the vandals too, so when you spot something like that, please let him know about it too. Thanks. You're awesome! -- Danny Toughpigs 21:28, 31 January 2006 (UTC) :Procedural reminder appreciated! I wasn't quite sure how to respond (probably shouldn't have posted to the talk page, *which* I missed anyway and it wound up on the user page, ahem). I'm one of those who responds to frustration with frantic politeness. If it happens again, I'll post a blanket comment, with specifics on IP and page(s) to both you and Scott. --Andrew, Aleal 21:41, 1 February 2006 (UTC) ::Cool. You can also feel free to post a vandalism warning on the user's page, if you want. You can see the three templates on the Vandalism page. Scott and I are talking about a more general Community Guidelines policy -- I'll post something about it on Current events later today. -- Danny Toughpigs 22:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC) Hillary the Owl Hey, another good catch on the Muppet Characters category, and moving that text to Hillary the Owl. I added a talk box to the article page, so hopefully somebody who knows The Animal Show will see it, if there are such people. -- Danny Toughpigs 17:32, 27 January 2006 (UTC) Vandal Hey Andrew. Nice job catching the vandalism. I posted a warning on their talk page and noted it on the watch page. -- Scarecroe 22:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, and then I just went ahead and blocked them. I updated the watch page with both vandals that you caught, and it's clear to me that both of them were going to be a problem. I gave them both a three-day time out. -- Danny Toughpigs 04:20, 27 January 2006 (UTC) Three-performer box Hey Andrew: I just made a new performer box template for characters (like the Dinosaurs folks) who were operated by three puppeteers. It's called Performer3, and it works the same way as the Performer and Performer2 templates. I just put it up on the Robbie Sinclair page. The code looks like this: -- so if you want to use that for the Dinosaurs, then there you go. -- Danny Toughpigs 19:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC) :PS: I just saw your "yay!", and it made me laugh. -- Danny Toughpigs 19:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC) Vard Hi Andrew: The person you just posted to is User:Vard; he's legit. I know who he is -- he worked in the Workshop. -- Danny Toughpigs 02:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC) ::Aha! Simply a case of not logging in. Thanks. It sounded uncannily accurate, just wanted to be sure, especially since such info would be worth adding to the individual designer pages, especially now that it's sourced. Aleal 03:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC) :::Yeah, it's the goods. Add away! -- Danny Toughpigs 03:59, 22 January 2006 (UTC) Origins Hi Andrew! It's really nice to meet you. I just saw your post on Dean's talk page, which was so detailed and patient and just lovely. Where did you spring from? It sounds from your post like you've been on Wikipedia for a while. -- Danny Toughpigs 04:11, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) PS: I also just added you to the Community portal page. -- Danny :Thanks again for the warm welcome. Well, I've been editing on Wikipedia sporadically since May (character actor and radio stuff mostly). Thanks for the compliment (I try to be tactful whenever possible). Not very active in Muppet community (especially as it seems I can't log back into Muppet Central after an absence of months), I mostly stick to animation (sometimes even get paid to write about it!) and working on Voicechasers' website (trying to fix the Dark Crystal entry, which lists the puppeteers instead of the British voices). I'm a research junkie, basically (trying to find the list I took from Henson.com of characters designed or built by Don Sahlin). Oh, and if it hasn't been said before, I love the Muppet Wiki logo. -- Andrew Aleal 07:23, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah, the logo's great, isn't it? Scott made that. I just Googled you and found your Toonjunkies page... Yeah, you sure are an animation buff! Now it makes sense that you popped up on the wiki -- this seems like your kind of place. Another page said you were getting your master's at Syracuse -- is that still true, or did you finish? -- Danny Toughpigs 23:30, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::Oh, and by the way, feel free to post links to Toonjunkies on your user page. I bet people would like to see it! -- Danny :::Thanks. I'll probably put a full bio and stuff on the page later (right now I need food and rest; this is more addictive than collecting McDonald's Fraggle toys). Animation and puppetry, though too often conflated by some (Jim Henson often being listed as an "animator" or Kermit and such as "cartoon characters," outside of Muppet Babies anyway..) are very similar to my mind, whether it's breathing life into drawings or felt (and stop-motion is a direct descendant of puppetry). Recently was privilged to write over 50 entries for a book on animated features (The Animated Movie Guide, with Jerry Beck as main author/editor), and it occurs to me that someone really needs to do a good book covering filmed puppet productions, real puppetry, whether hand or rod or string or animatronic (as opposed to stop-motion, which is another art entirely). The toughest part would probably be deciding how many effects/Creature Shop type deals to include or exclude, or for that matter, older films with brief puppet sequences but usually no real illusion (the handpuppet goose in Disney's oddball Babes in Toyland, and of course the Baird's Lonely Goatherd from Sound of Music). Then again, that would also mean sitting through Meet the Feebles. Andrew, Aleal 03:05, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::Oh, and yeah, still going to Syracuse, though at my old computer in my hometown of El Paso right now, enjoying the last few days of my Christmas before heading back to the snow.- Andrew Welcome Thanks for adding stuff to the Wiki! Would you like to provide your real name so we can add you to the Community Portal?--MuppetVJ 02:10, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC) :Welcome from me too! You added a lot of great info today -- thanks! It seems like you know a lot; I'm glad you're here. -- Danny Toughpigs 04:42, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::Thanks to both of you for the welcome. My real name is Andrew Leal (thus the shortening for the user name), mostly an animation buff/researcher, but with a long fondness for the Muppets. Thanks for straightening me re voices/puppeteers, Danny. Though I still wonder if it wouldn't hurt for the films and such where there's a clear distinction in the credits (or when entries get added eventually for characters from Dark Crystal or Labyrinth, where almost all the voices were non-puppeteers), but can understand not wanting to open up a can of worms (i.e. trying to list every stand-in puppeteer for Miss Piggy or background puppeteer for Grover, and so forth). Aleal 06:39, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC) Logoboy block Hi! I see our little friend from Wikipedia has followed us here. I left word with User:Scarecroe on his talk page regarding this user. You did the right thing. I'm the one who blocked a slew of his sockpuppets. - Lucky 6.9 03:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)